A retrospective childhood wish of queer adults is often one for more stories of people like them, especially among those who grew up in predominantly heterosexual worlds (which is to say, all of us?). In his young adult novel, All Kinds of Other, author James Sie offers just that for a new generation of readers: an LGBTQIA+ story of teenagers like them.
The story of Jack and Jules, our lovebird protagonists, is a story of owning otherness–of romance between two young men, one cis and one trans. It’s about being a teenager–a queer, trans teenager from Pittsburgh–and James went to great, devoted lengths to try and understand exactly who these characters were. He flew to Pittsburgh to meet them. In 2017, as part of his research for the book, James conducted interviews with teenagers at the PGH Equality Center and fell into their stories.
Although this book is billed as YA, I would argue it holds deep value to anyone who aspires to be an ally to LGBTQIA+ youth, who wants to protect trans kids and their futures, who wants a glimpse (albeit fictional) into the rocky and exciting lives of queer teens. In our discussion below, James also addresses the very real, very dangerous non-fiction that is anti-trans legislation, and why it’s imperative that we all come together to safeguard the rights and well-being of the youngest in our LGBTQIA+ communities.
This book stands tall and brave, tender and vulnerable, hopeful and funny all at once. It normalizes and celebrates trans and all LGBTQIA+ identities without conflating them, painting with all the colors on the palette, reclaiming the happy magic of otherness. Check out my conversation with James below, and, if you’re reading this in Pittsburgh before Saturday, June 26, consider this your invitation to James’ author chat at Millvale Pride!
Representation and the experience of seeing one’s truest selves reflected in art can be profoundly validating, especially for teenagers who are in such identity-sculpting phases of life. Can you speak a bit about your decision to a) write a young adult novel, and b) star two LGBTQIA+ teenage protagonists?
First off, can I say how incredibly hard it is to be a teenager of any kind, trying to discover your place in the world? I have a son who’s just at the tail end of his teen journey, and some of that passage was grueling. Now, add to that being a queer kid, with all those feelings of isolation and otherness, and on top of that, pile on a whole lot of vilification from governmental institutions that seem hell bent (an entirely appropriate term) on trying to erase your place in the world, to erase your very right to exist, causing at the very least an unwanted intrusion into your personal space, and at the very worst a tacit approval for violence–it’s harrowing and heartbreaking.
I wanted to be on the other side of all that with this book: A welcoming flag, letting our queer kids know that they are seen, that they deserve to be loved, and that they are so goddamned special. I can’t imagine being as bold, as brave, and as resourceful when I was a gay teen. My admiration for this new generation is boundless.
My book features two gay boys, because that’s the kind of love story I wish I could have read growing up, and because when I was beginning to write the book there weren’t any YA novels featuring relationships between cis boys and trans boys, and that kind of relationship deserved to be out there. I’m happy to say that by the time All Kinds of Other was published this summer, there were so many more YA books featuring trans masculine characters of all sexualities. Go team!
You pepper All Kinds of Other with conversations hosted on social media and text, which on first blush seems like a stylistic choice to appeal to teenagers, but I found it had a much deeper effect. For example, on reading the Tumblr posts, I was struck by the anonymity of the trans author and how that must be freeing but also lonely. Can you talk a bit about the role of online spaces in teenage LGBTQIA+ life and why you decided to embed those spaces into your book?
Online spaces for queer youth, especially trans and non-binary youth, was and is incredibly important because often those are the only places where they can find communities that reflect who they are or who they think they might be. The book is set in 2015, and at that time there was very little validating representation in the media, but you could go to safe places like YouTube and Tumblr and find all sorts of resources and people who could help guide you on your journey to self-discovery. Vloggers like Ryan Cassata and Skylar Kergil and Alex Bertie, who documented their transition stories in real time, gave hope and inspiration to countless LGBTQIA+ kids looking for answers and inspirations. I thought it was important to create transcripts of YouTube videos and Tumblr posts because those forms of communication were so vital for trans kids. I think that rather than online life being lonely, it was actually a place where you felt the most supported and seen. It was your real life that was isolating.
It took me a while to get the hang of “teen-speak” in texts and online posts, but luckily I had my own teenager whose texts and compositions I had learned to decipher! It’s like a different language, with its own syntax and grammar (and very little punctuation). I grew to love those sections, especially the Tumblr posts. It was such a propulsive way to write, like poetry.
The word “other,” in your book─and in life─carries a lot of weight, and I appreciated the reclaiming work the title is doing. You also expertly challenge tired understandings of LGBTQIA+, BIPOC, and other “othered” communities, and instead embrace those intersections to celebrate allyship and reject monolithic narratives. Can you talk about the positive side to owning “otherness”?
A character in the book wonders about why the world has such a hard time embracing “the infinite variety of human life,” and I wonder about that, too. To own your otherness is to own your power. Why is being “other” than the mainstream such a frightening and dangerous thing? Why can’t we embrace differences rather than demonizing them? And that kind of “us/them” binary thinking is not reserved just for straight, white folk. I’m glad you mentioned rejecting monolithic narratives; one of the biggest lessons I learned while writing the book was how much our experiences vary in the LGBTQIA community. We are by no means monolithic. Each of those letters has its own particular set of challenges, as well as tensions with the other letters. It’s easy enough for me, a gay man, to say, “Hey, things are going relatively well. I’m allowed to marry, I feel more accepted, and so that must be more or less the same for everyone in the queer community.” No. That’s just being a passive ally, and this is no time for complacency, not with so many anti-trans bills being pushed and passed in states across the country. We’ve got to work together as a community to make sure that everyone’s rights are protected.
Event information
Author Talk at Millvale Pride
When: Saturday, June 26, 3:00-4:00 p.m. ET
Where: Millvale Community Library
More information
I’m sure I’m not alone in loving the way you did not make Jack’s trans identity the main conflict of the story, and I read you hoped it would be “taken for granted.” What are your strategies to encourage representation and avoid tokenization or reducing characters (and IRL humans) to a single aspect of their identity while still allowing them to own it?
That is such a good question. I guess it comes down to doing your due diligence: lots and lots of research and reading and interviews and trying to honestly reflect the specific experiences of those you are talking to, instead of relying on what you think you know, which in many cases [is] based on tropes or generalizations. Being self-aware enough to know you have blind spots, and finding those who can point them out to you. I had a great editor who gently but firmly pointed out areas that I could finesse better, and readers who helped me immeasurably with their perspectives. Finally, you have to be humble enough to realize that, for some readers, you may not have gotten it right, and to accept and learn from that.
You’re also a voiceover artist (so cool) and I wonder if that skill supports and informs the way you embody characters in your writing? Does that experience help you connect with teenage readers?
Ha! I suppose my acting skills come in handy when I’m writing dialogue because when I read those sections aloud (I read the entire book aloud for every draft—so helpful for flow) I do all the voices! As far as connecting with young readers, well, I don’t know if it sells more books, but when I do talks or panels, telling people I’m the Cabbage Merchant on “Avatar: The Last Airbender” definitely amps up the excitement!
In researching this novel, you spent time with and interviewed LGBTQIA+ and trans masculine teenagers at the Pittsburgh Equality Center. Can you talk a bit about that experience? How did Pittsburgh shape the way you approached Jack’s trans identity and experience in the fictional Pittsburgh of your book?
I chose Pittsburgh as Jack’s home town because I wanted a city that I could contrast with an ostensibly more progressive school in Los Angeles. I wanted an area that was still urban, where Jack could transition relatively easily, but a place maybe more mixed in their acceptance of queer students. Pennsylvania was at that time in the news a lot because of the bathroom bills, and Pittsburgh was the perfect blend of blue collar and progressive.
Visiting Pittsburgh, interviewing a young trans man from a local high school, and getting to meet the queer kids at the Pittsburgh Equality Center (then called the GLCC) definitely took my book in a different direction. I was envisioning a lighter, fluffier narrative, but then I heard these kids’ stories and I felt like I needed to reflect the very real challenges they faced in school and at home. Remember, I came to Pittsburgh in 2017, right after the last administration had settled in, and things had taken a darker turn for these teens. They could feel it immediately. I learned how so much of your safety and acceptance depended on what school district you were in, but that even in schools that had a robust GSA and supportive teachers, the experience on the ground for trans kids could be very different than what was being touted by those in charge.
As the main characters’ parents feature significantly in the book, I wonder if you might share your thoughts on how parents can best support, protect, and create safe spaces for their LGBTQIA+ teenage children? And how can peer allies and older queer folks best support teenagers in coming out?
It was important to me in the book to include parents who were not villains, who loved their children, but who still fucked up at times. There are so many hurtful things, so many microaggressions, that can come out with the best of intentions. I would say to parents and older allies: look, I know it’s not easy figuring out this world that is so different from the world you grew up in, where the once hard-and-fast rules of gender and sexuality are evolving into something more diverse, more fluid, and that even the language we use to describe it is still developing, changing as the terrain changes. Try to be flexible. You’ll make mistakes. Try not to get defensive. You may not understand everything, but that’s okay. Just try to keep your mind and your heart open.
Also, answers can be a Google search away. There’s a lot of information out there—find it!
Who are other LGBTQIA+ authors, YA or in general, that we should be reading?
This is the hardest question, because there are so many, and I hate to leave anyone out… Here’s a smattering:
- Akwaeke Emezi has some powerful fiction, YA fiction, and now, a memoir
- Graphic Novels: Bishakh Som; Allison Bechdel.
- YA lit: Tobly McSmith; Malinda Lo; Becky Albertalli; Aiden Thomas; Meredith Russo, Kacen Callender
- Memoir: Alex Bertie, Skylar Kergil
- Middle Grade: Maulik Pancholy; Jen Wang
- Literary Fiction, adult: Michael Cunningham, Jeanette Winterson, Andrew Holleran, Noel Alumit, Ryka Aoki
You can purchase “All Kinds of Other” from your local bookstore, or online!
About James Sie
JAMES SIE (pronouns he/him) is the author of the YA novel All Kinds of Other. His debut novel, Still Life Las Vegas, was a Lambda Literary Award nominee for Best Gay Fiction. An award-winning playwright, he has had productions performed in Chicago, Los Angeles, New York (Lincoln Center Institute) and across the country. He has contributed essays to Pen America, The Rumpus, Esquire, and The Advocate. In addition to writing, James is also a voiceover artist for many cartoons and games, including Jackie Chan Adventures, Kung Fu Panda: Legends of Awesomeness; Final Fantasy VII Remake, and Avatar: The Last Airbender, where his excessive love of cabbages has earned him immortal fame. James now lives in Los Angeles with his husband and son. Visit his website at Sieworld.com.