On camera from her Malibu home, Kathy Griffin looks harmless, even friendly. But I’m not Gary Busey, Mel Gibson, Larry Ellison or Sean Penn, who are among Griffin’s neighbors — the people, she says, she might run into in Aisle 9. “I’m here in Malibu terrorizing celebrities as much as I can at the grocery store where they all try to avoid me,” she says.
Griffin has spent her entire career as a standup comedian fearlessly digging her nails into Hollywood’s most elite, not even sparing the President of the United States. In 2017, she was investigated by the Department of Justice for a viral photo that depicted her holding up a severed model head covered in fake blood that resembled Donald Trump. In the years that followed, she lost her mother Maggie, beat lung cancer and went through her second divorce. The resulting tour and YouTube special, “My Life on the PTSD List,” was her first in six years.
Her latest tour, “New Face, New Tour,” is irreverently inspired by her third facelift. “I have no secrets,” she says.
What’s the first kind of laugh you’re hoping to hear from a crowd when you get out there?
I have a video that I open my shows with and I stole the idea from Cher because I went to see her one time and she has a video that’s a retrospective of her work. And I thought, oh, that’s a good way to get the audience pumped. I can tell based on their reaction to the video what kind of audience they are. Some audiences like more political stuff, some audiences like more family stuff, some audiences like more pop culture. And I can tell just from that opening video.
When you get out there every night, you are obviously carrying a heavy load along with all of us. What does comedy feel like to perform for you right now?
With everything that’s going on in the world, I actually don’t start my show with comedy. I start my show just talking to the audience. I was in Canada the day Catherine O’Hara passed away and she was Canadian and I thought, “Well, I can’t just go start the show.” So I acknowledged it. I acknowledge what’s going on with ICE and we talk about that for a minute. And then I go, “OK, everybody, can I move on to the funny stuff?”
People are even protesting ICE at your shows.
I have people chant “Fuck ICE” five times in a row, and I feel like it helps us get out some aggression. I always make a point of reminding everyone that Renee Good was also a gay woman. I would argue that that murder was a hate crime as well as a murder because you could tell her wife was gay, she presented as gay. And I think that guy couldn’t handle two gay women just kind of following him and just being legal observers. So every show I’m like, “Let’s not forget Renee Good was a mom, all these great things. She was also a gay woman.”
Is this why you’ve put pressure on people like Anderson Cooper and Andy Cohen to speak out about it?
It worked! I guilted them and I shamed them! And they both can’t stand me, but I couldn’t help it. I said, “I’ll put our beef aside and Anderson, you have to go to Minnesota. We need famous faces there.” And by the way, then his thunder was stolen by Don Lemon, who I’ve been corresponding with. And then I said to Andy, “Andy, I know you do a silly show, ‘Watch What Happens Live,’ but take a minute.” And then he did.
You’re demonstrating the power of speaking up.
I do my little YouTube show that I don’t even know if anybody watches. I just do it every Tuesday and hope somebody watches.
With that show, “Talk Your Head Off,” what do you love about having an outlet like that? What does that kind of direct unfiltered platform give you that traditional media never did?
Well, it gives me a platform to just pop off to the camera. And usually I don’t have guests. My co-host is one of my wigs and I can do stuff that isn’t really appropriate for my standup act, but I tell stories. And recently I’ve been talking mostly about ICE because it’s so ever present even here in California.
Being a comedian, you have to be on top of the news. And that’s our number one news story. And also the folks that are watching my YouTube show are probably not Trumpers. And so we talk about Trumpism and what to look for. And, of course, I make fun of him as much as possible. And sometimes the stuff is so dark. I’m not funny for a few minutes and then I’ll try to bring back a laugh later. But I’m in a phase where I really have to play it by ear because the news is changing so rapidly and it’s so dramatic. Nothing like I’ve ever seen in my 65 years. So I think as a comic, it’s OK for me to take certain moments and be serious about these topics.
How do you decide when it’s OK to make a joke out of a serious moment, and when you should keep it serious?
Well, for example, the way people protest against ICE can be funny. Recently, there was a white nationalist Nazi named Jake Lang, and he came to Minnesota to be pro-ICE. And so the townspeople threw dildos at his car.
The joke almost writes itself.
It really does. And I can just show a clip of it and it’s hilarious.
It would be great if you had a dildo moment on stage.
I could. BYO.
You once joked to me that you try to keep your shows to two hours and if they run longer, you’re a “bad girl.”
Last weekend I was naughty. Time for my spanking. I was naughty. I’m trying to get down to an hour and a half, but I’m working on all this new stuff and people are so gracious. I’m not shitting you. Guess what? I go out, they fucking stand. I’m like, what?
Well, you’ve earned your place.
I think the audiences coming to the live shows, the people that come to Royal Oak, they know my story. They know about the Trump head picture and how much Trump goes for me. And I think they’re very well aware of that. And that’s fine with me. I’m not trying to get any Trumpers to come to my shows. I’m just happy to have my own fan base.
It sounds like you question your icon place in pop culture.
Oh, of course. I’m not an icon. My mother would kill me if she was still alive. She’d go, “What the hell are you talking about? A goddamn icon? What is that? A statue? You’re not an icon. You’re Irish Catholic from Chicago. You’re not even from Forest Park, Illinois. You’re not even from Chicago. Don’t be high and mighty.”
This sounds like some Midwesterner modesty.
Oh yeah. My family is all about the Midwestern common sense and anything that I do, like I’m wearing this top that’s Gucci and my mother would just ream me for it: “What the hell is Gucci? It’s goddamn high and mighty, for Christ’s sake.” And then she would drink from a box of wine.
I hope you do have moments where you recognize what you’ve accomplished.
I got a big award and I was named Advocate of the Year and I was on the cover of the Advocate magazine. I still am, actually. And the award was from Out magazine and Sia gave me the award and then I put her on the spot and I made her sing “Unstoppable” a capella and it caused a gay panic.
You’ve survived Trump. You went through so much. We talked about it the last time that we spoke.
The Trump picture still defines me. And so I deal with it everywhere I go. My social media is as bad as AOC’s. I’ve had people tell me, “Your social media responses from Trumpers? I’ve only seen AOC have worse ones than you,” which I thought was really funny. And I met her and I told her that. She was like, “Yeah, mine are pretty bad.” And so I just block, block, block. And I’m on Threads a lot, which is kind of a D-list platform. I’m popular on Threads, which is very on brand. I don’t have a million Instagram followers. I don’t have a million TikTok followers. But I’m big on Threads and that’s where I belong.
I just saw how much you loved Bad Bunny’s Super Bowl performance on Threads.
Oh, I want to be Mrs. Bunny. I could make that work. I don’t know what Kendall Jenner was thinking breaking up with him, but he is sexy and he could be the next Mr. Griffin. And Lady Gaga will officiate.
Are comedians getting braver or more cautious in this moment?
It depends on who it is. I would like to see Jimmy Fallon get political and he’s not. That’s the place where it’s kind of very safe. And I would’ve liked Colbert to push back on CBS/Paramount more the way Jimmy Kimmel did. But, obviously, Jimmy is the winner in this one because he sat down with [top Disney executives] Bob Iger and Dana Walden and just looked them right in the face and said, “No, I’m not going to stop making fun of Trump. And you’ll have to take me off the air.” And then Trump got him off the air for something like three nights and the backlash was so enormous that even Bob Iger said, “OK, we’ll let you do whatever you want about Trump.”
And I’ve gone on there and made fun of Trump many times and now his audience kind of expects it. So I think Jimmy Kimmel is really leading the way. And right now, the way we got him back on the air is the most successful of our moves as lefties. People wrote in and wrote old-fashioned letters and emailed ABC and Disney. I wish more celebrities would have that level of balls.
Where did you get your balls from?
My dad. My dad always said, “I don’t care if you never work again, just say whatever you want.” Which was horrible advice. And my mother would say, “Stop saying that, John. Jesus Christ, you’re just drunk.” He took it to heart, because my dad was like that. He would say the most inappropriate shit and it would make me laugh so hard.
Ever since I was a little girl, he would just say things that were wrong. I remember one time one of our friends did a remodel of their rec room, which is like a basement, and my dad was a real handyman, so the friend wanted dad to like it. So he walks in, dad’s holding my hand. I was like 6, and my dad looks around the remodel rec room and he goes, “What a shit box.” And I just thought that was the funniest thing. And the family just burst out laughing. They weren’t offended. And so I was dumb enough to think, “Oh, people will know when I’m kidding.” They don’t! Especially the president.
You have really been the same person your whole life.
I’m the same person I was on “My Life on the D-List,” except there’s no cameras. But I swear to God, my life is just the same as that.
As someone who has survived Trump, what advice do you have for people to get through this era, especially for queer and trans people who are exhausted and scared?
Well, first of all, you should be exhausted and scared. So stay alert and stay vigilant and stay together. That’s one thing the gay community has always done better than any other group. You guys are so good at mobilizing and organizing. So just like you see the people in Minneapolis with their whistles on every corner, that’s how I think the gay community will handle it when Trump goes for you. So once again, you guys are natural community organizers. Organize it on Grindr. I’m not sure how you can make it work, but you will.
Before we wrap, I want to give you the floor. What’s on your mind right now around “Heated Rivalry”?
First of all, I’m a hockey fan and what cracks me up is how little hockey there was in that. The idea that they would be flirting during the slapshot was hilarious to me. And the mom not knowing he was gay and the mom going out and crying was funny to me because I’m like, “Girl, please.” You knew since he was 3. Those two guys are so hot and I think it’s great because in my generation, “Will & Grace” was the big, revelatory gay show. And now we got gay guys just blowing each other in every shower from here to Russia.